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Navigating the U.S. well being care system can really feel like a “battle royale.” From difficult unfair medical payments to wrestling with insurance coverage corporations over pre-authorizations, sufferers should be prepared to stay up for themselves.
So, how will you keep cool and assured in these fights? On this rebroadcast of “An Arm and a Leg” from 2020, host Dan Weissmann hits up self-defense coach Lauren Taylor about methods for standing up for your self and hears how she utilized her strategy in her personal battle for well being care protection.
Dan Weissmann
Host and producer of “An Arm and a Leg.” Beforehand, Dan was a workers reporter for Market and Chicago’s WBEZ. His work additionally seems on All Issues Thought of, Market, the BBC, 99 P.c Invisible, and Reveal, from the Middle for Investigative Reporting.
Credit
Emily Pisacreta
Producer
Adam Raymonda
Audio Wizard
Ellen Weiss
Editor
Marian Wang
Editor
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Transcript: Self-Protection 101: Conserving Your Cool Whereas You Combat
Word: “An Arm and a Leg” makes use of speech-recognition software program to generate transcripts, which can include errors. Please use the transcript as a instrument however examine the corresponding audio earlier than quoting the podcast.
Dan: Hey there – Earlier than we begin, I simply need to say THANK YOU for supporting our work right here. Because of you, we beat all of our targets for the top of 2023.
Meaning we collected each greenback of matching funds that had been on provide — and since so many people grew to become donors for the primary time, we earned a bonus from the Institute for Nonprofit Information.
So we’re beginning this yr in fine condition, which is nice, as a result of we’ve received some large initiatives deliberate.
Thanks a lot.
Now, in much less pleasant information, I’m preventing a bit of bit with my insurance coverage firm proper now. Or … is it the hospital billing workplace I’m preventing with? Each retains sending me again to the opposite. It’s … a great time.
There’s a First Help Equipment e-newsletter in all this, however for now I’m struggling to search out the hours for all of the cellphone calls, and to maintain my composure.
On that final word– maintaining my composure — this looks as if a great time to deliver again what would be the most helpful episode we’ve ever executed, from late 2020.
You prepared? Right here we go.
I received a voicemail from a listener named Amanda Jaffe. She’s been listening to our episodes about people who battle again towards insurance coverage corporations and outrageous payments. And she or he says she’s type of a bulldog herself on these things. BUT she says there’s a snag. Possibly you may relate — I positively can.
Amanda Jaffe: After I name the insurance coverage corporations, I begin to get indignant to a degree the place possibly it’s unproductive. So I would like some steering on the best way to stay cool when calling insurance coverage corporations. Thanks. I’d actually need the assistance.
Dan: YES. I’ve been fascinated by this for months and months. We’ve been listening to from individuals who battle and battle, and generally win, and a few issues preserve getting clearer:
ONE: You’re most likely gonna spend a LOT of time on the cellphone, quite a lot of it on maintain, and quite a lot of it with individuals who, for one motive or one other, will not be gonna appear that useful.
And TWO, I preserve listening to again and again: You’ve gotta preserve your cool. OK, positive.
However I preserve questioning time and again: OK, HOW?
And right now, I believe I’ve received precisely the particular person I’ve been on the lookout for.
Lauren Taylor: My title is Lauren Taylor. I run Defend Your self in Washington, DC, and we train individuals expertise for stopping harassment, abuse, and assault.
Dan: So for like a YEAR I’ve been describing this present as being targeted on self-defense towards the price of well being care. And Lauren is an precise self-defense trainer. Has been one for thirty-five years.
And it seems self-defense — the best way Lauren and her colleagues train it — is NOT simply the hitting and the kicking. It’s defending your self towards all types of … encroachment. Road harassment. Creepy co-workers. Simply standing up for your self. You would possibly’ve observed, Lauren mentioned her group teaches individuals expertise for stopping harassment, abuse, and assault.
And abuse … I’m unsure that’s too robust a phrase for a way the health-care industrial advanced treats individuals.
So, Lauren herself is simply wrapping up an EPIC battle along with her medical health insurance. And she or he has been utilizing self-defense expertise all alongside the best way. I’m not going into all the main points.
Lauren Taylor: There’s been so many issues. I actually can’t bear in mind all of them.
Dan: However we talked via them– as a result of she’s received ’em written down.
Lauren Taylor: That is additionally a self-defense factor, which is doc, proper?
Identical to you’d with a stalker or a office harasser or, uh, even uh, An abusive associate, is doc all the pieces as a result of, you would possibly want it
Dan: You train this within the class.
Lauren Taylor: Oh yeah.
Dan: I stroll in, assume I’m gonna learn to want anyone within the nuts. And also you’re like, “get a pocket book.” I’m like, wow.
Lauren Taylor: Individuals, individuals do stroll in considering they’re going to learn to, , knee somebody within the groin, and we do train that. however I can’t let you know how usually in evaluations individuals inform us that they had been fully blown away by all the opposite stuff that they study, which is actually about empowerment.
Dan: Sure. Sure, please. Let’s have a few of that.
That is An Arm and a Leg — a present about the price of well being care. I’m Dan Weissmann. I’m a reporter, and I like a problem. So my job right here is to take some of the enraging, terrifying, miserable points in American life– and YES, there’s a bunch of these, however I’m sticking with this one– and produce a present that’s entertaining, empowering, and helpful.
And right here we’re.
Right here’s Lauren’s deal: It begins the early Nineteen Eighties,
Lauren Taylor: I had saved up cash and I used to be gonna take a while and journey on my own. And a good friend of mine advised me a couple of self-defense class that she had taken. And I believed, “Oh, that’s a very good concept. I ought to most likely try this if I’m going to journey on my own.”
Dan: She says it modified her life. Like, as an adolescent, she’d handled a LOT of avenue harassment. She figured, man, that’s simply the way it goes.
Lauren Taylor: And I had all the time thought that if anyone tried to rape me, there could be nothing I might do as a result of by definition they might be greater and stronger than me.
And the actual life-changing piece of the self-defense class was realizing that that was incorrect. It was realizing that I had energy and that I might harm anyone who was attempting to harm me.
Dan: How did that really feel?
Lauren Taylor: It’s, it’s completely life altering. I imply, even now, like, simply inform it to you. I nonetheless really feel like a rush of vitality via my physique saying it.
Dan: It’s thrilling. It’s like, holy shit! I’m not helpless
Lauren Taylor: Yeah. I can shield myself. Yeah. And I’ve energy and, and . An enormous piece of it is also I’ve permission to do that and I should be protected.I deserve to have the ability to defend myself.
And all of these will not be messages that, you recognize, most of us get rising up nonetheless. And definitely not after I was rising up. So, it’s type of like, caught the fever after which wished to unfold the gospel of self-defense.
Dan: So, she’s been educating self-defense since 1985.
I requested her: So, how did it change your life– past the truth that you began educating it? Like, what did you do in a different way?
She says for starters, she did take that journey, and there was an evening or two that didn’t go in accordance with plan: Her place to crash fell via, she was out late, misplaced, a bit of scared. And she or he took out a pen, so in case she wanted to harm anyone, she’d have a pen to harm them with. She did NOT have to make use of it, however having a plan helped her preserve cool.
However that wasn’t the massive stuff. The large stuff was standing up for herself in different methods. Like when her boss in a full-time volunteer gig began sexually harassing her.
Lauren Taylor: Whereas earlier than I’d have preferred, you recognize, suffered and wrung my fingers and journaled about it and known as 12 buddies and, thought possibly there was one thing incorrect with me and you recognize, all of these issues I didn’t do, I used to be identical to, Actually no, don’t do that.
Dan: After which what occurred?
Lauren Taylor: Ge just about reduce it out.
Dan: YEAH. After which there was her mother. Who did NOT deal effectively with Lauren being homosexual. It was painful. After which there was the ultimate straw:
Lauren Taylor: We had a big household reunion and She didn’t invite my associate and he or she invited my siblings companions.
Jesus, ouch. They’d had quite a lot of conversations. Now Lauren set a tough boundary. She put it in writing to her mother:
Lauren Taylor: There are some staple items I would like from you, or I’m not going to have the ability to keep in touch with you. Proper. So, if there’s a household occasion, My associate will get invited , that’s self-defense
Dan: That first self-defense class Lauren took had not coated Dealing With Tough Household Members, however Lauren says she’d gotten the message:
Lauren Taylor: It was okay. to require sure sorts of respect from individuals. it was okay to be who I used to be, that wasn’t my fault that individuals handled me as lower than all of that type of stuff.
Dan: And by the best way, Lauren says the courses she leads now, they DO cowl all that type of stuff.
In different phrases, self-defense covers a LOT of territory. The large concept: If you happen to’re in a tricky spot, you need some choices.
Lauren says she provides college students a five-part framework– 5 sorts of choices.
They’re: Run, yell, hit, inform, and go alongside.
And so they’re not all literal. Like, RUN is …
Lauren Taylor: Go away stroll away. Don’t present up for the appointment, break up with the particular person, something that makes you not there.
Dan: And she or he says by YELL, she means: Use your voice.
Lauren Taylor: Assertiveness or deescalation or negotiation, or, you recognize, that’s not okay with me or don’t come any nearer or, you recognize, I received’t come to household occasions in case you don’t invite my associate. Proper.
Dan: “Yell” covers quite a lot of territory there.
Lauren Taylor: The whole lot along with your phrases just about.
Dan: The whole lot with phrases you employ with the opposite particular person. As a result of there’s additionally TELL. Which she says imply — additionally actually broadly — get assist.
Lauren Taylor: It may be getting assist in the second. uh, this particular person is bothering me. Can I stand with you? After which there’s, longer-term getting assist going to HR, going to a hotline, , speaking to a lawyer,
Dan: Posting to social media.
Lauren Taylor: Posting it. Proper. precisely.
Dan: Hit is — effectively, it’s truly hitting. They follow that too.
After which there’s the final one: Go alongside.
Lauren Taylor: We wish individuals to know that that’s an possibility, proper? We’re not saying. All the time resist. We’re saying resistance is profitable far more than you’ve been advised and far more than you imagine.
However there are occasions when, going alongside, is the neatest and most secure factor so that you can do. And for instance, if somebody’s attempting to take your property, proper, if it’s a mugging, And also you need to get out of there, unhurt, the neatest and most secure factor to do is to provide them your property.
Dan: Yeah. I believe you may most likely see the broad outlines of how this might apply to wrangling along with your insurance coverage firm or preventing unfair medical payments. I imply, speak about a mugging.
It positively jogs my memory of one thing I mentioned after we began this self-defense collection: We’re not gonna win ’em all. We simply don’t should lose all of them both.
So, that’s Lauren’s framework.
Subsequent: Let’s study some SPECIFIC methods and the way we are able to begin making use of them. That’s proper after this.
This episode of An Arm and a Leg is produced in partnership with KFF Well being Information. That’s a non-profit newsroom protecting well being care in America. Their work is terrific, wins all types of awards yearly. I’m so proud to work with them.
OK. truly USE self-defense methods with medical payments and insurance coverage BS.
We’ll begin with an instance from Lauren’s epic health-insurance battle this yr. We’re not gonna get into the story– it’s too lengthy, too bizarre, and it’s not even actually over. BUT we’ll zoom in on a second when Lauren’s on the cellphone and the opposite particular person opens by throwing up a roadblock, saying, YOU most likely did one thing incorrect.
I’m like, Argh, I’m already indignant. What do you do now? And Lauren’s like, “I stayed on my agenda.”
STAYING ON YOUR AGENDA. This can be a complete self-defense factor. Lauren walks me via it:
Lauren Taylor: Right here’s the method. Okay. One thing’s occurring. You already know, like anyone is harassing you on the road or no matter …
Dan: Otherwise you’re calling your insurance coverage, and the opposite particular person is being REALLY unhelpful.
She says you ask your self three questions, on this order: First, how am I feeling? It’s most likely not nice.
Lauren Taylor: I’m terrified. I’m indignant, I’m upset. I need to cry. I really feel humiliated.
Dan: Good instances. That’s the primary query: How am I feeling?
Second: What do I would like? Which is extra big-picture: Have to get a protected distance, want respect.
Third, what do I WANT? That is extra particular– what would you like from the opposite particular person:
Lauren Taylor: I need you to take your fingers off me. I need you to take three steps again. I need you to knock earlier than you are available my workplace. I need you to cease making racist jokes. no matter it’s, you flip it into what I need you to condemn, and that’s your agenda. What you need to occur is your agenda.
So. Then once they do no matter people who find themselves misusing energy do, which is commonly. Guilt journey you or attempting to control you or blame you want, effectively, why had been you there? Why had been you carrying that? Why did you get drunk? Um, it’s only a joke. Um, why wouldn’t have mentioned it, in case you hadn’t blah, blah, blah, or why you being such a bitch?
Um, you recognize, all of these issues are to get you into their net of dialog and off of your agenda and also you keep in your agenda. So if I say to you, don’t ask me about my private life whereas we’re at work. And also you’re like, Oh Lauren, you’re so delicate.
Dan: Yeah, I’m altering the topic. Abruptly, we’re not speaking about what you need. We’re speaking about my notion of you. And you could have a reasonably robust impulse to deal with that– Like, “Oh, geez, am I?” Or, “I AM NOT”
Lauren Taylor: However as an alternative I’m simply going to say once more, “Hear, Dan, I requested you. I solely need to speak about work at work. And I actually don’t like answering private questions at work. So please cease asking me.” That’s staying in your agenda.
Dan: And so how did that occur in these cellphone calls?
Lauren Taylor: I simply saved saying what I wanted or. I’d preserve saying so what’s the subsequent step? What can we do from right here?
So for example, Lauren performed out an extended, lengthy set of calls along with her medical health insurance firm AND the state workplace that administers the Obamacare trade in Maryland, the place she lives.
Each time they hit an deadlock, she requested, “What’s the subsequent step?” Ultimately, the subsequent step was: file an attraction via the state legal professional basic’s workplace. Lauren known as, and the primary particular person to choose up the cellphone didn’t have a super-encouraging opening line.
Lauren Taylor: She was like, effectively, I’m positive you missed a deadline. And, um, as an alternative of claiming, I didn’t miss any deadlines as a result of then we’re into her dialog.
I mentioned, so please inform me extra about the best way to attraction. Proper? As a result of you recognize, she most likely talks to 100 individuals a day and, you recognize, individuals make all types of errors and you recognize, it’s an enormous headache to her, I’m positive.
Dan: So Lauren didn’t take the bait. She stayed on her agenda… AND AFTER A WHILE, ONCE THE APPEAL WAS REALLY IN MOTION, Lauren observed the identical girl– who was now calling LAUREN with updates, generally greater than as soon as a day– was singing a distinct tune. Properly, positively some new phrases.
Lauren Taylor: She was utilizing we language.
Dan: That’s what we like. Yeah,
Lauren Taylor: proper. So I used to be like, Oh, that is going very effectively. she was like, “we simply have to determine this factor out after which we’ll allow them to know.”
“WE” language.
OK, that is nice.
AND it’s like: Wait, how do I truly do that? Like, within the second? Like, right here’s Amanda’s query once more:
Amanda Jaffe: I begin to get indignant to a degree the place possibly it’s unproductive. So I would like some steering the best way to stay cool when calling insurance coverage corporations.
Dan: YEAH. Me too! Me too.
And Lauren reframed it. She was like: OK, getting indignant, that’s not an issue, not a mistake. It’s a sense that you just’re having. And it’s a very cheap feeling to have.
And she or he says Amanda’s nailing it in saying: these emotions most likely aren’t gonna be super-helpful IN this dialog.
So, you need a technique. An agenda. A plan.
Lauren Taylor: If you happen to can floor your self in the truth that you’re technique is to stay calm and assured whereas nonetheless being very assertive and chronic. that may be a technique, it doesn’t imply that you must really feel nice about what’s occurring. or that you just aren’t upset the best way that persons are treating you. it simply implies that as a method, you’re selecting to make use of this persona, this widespread, assured, assertive, persistent persona to try to get what you want.
Dan: So, yeah: You’re gonna be mad. That’s gonna occur. You simply don’t wanna act out these emotions within the dialog. So right here’s the precise ADVICE half: You’re taking these emotions and…
Lauren Taylor: Do them some place else. You, you recognize, go for a stroll and pound the pavement. You vent to a good friend. Um, in case you have a automobile, you roll up the home windows and drive on a freeway and scream. Um, you discover, you recognize, you discover a place that’s most likely not alcohol or ice cream too.
Um, To course of these emotions since you don’t need them simply hanging out in you both. That’s not good for you both.
Dan: Which is to say: It might be sensible to have a plan GOING INTO the dialog about the way you’re cope with these emotions afterwards. Possibly even make a plan with anyone else. You already know…
Lauren Taylor: Name a good friend or a member of the family who’s in your own home and say, I’m going to get on the cellphone with the medical health insurance firm, and we’re going to name you afterwards and vent. Proper. After which, you recognize, I’ve a spot for these emotions. It’s not that I’m squashing
Dan: Proper.
Lauren Taylor: There’s a time for that too.
Dan: I like that. However in the meantime, right here I’m IN the dialog, and issues are getting bushy, and I’m HAVING A LOT OF FEELINGS ABOUT IT.
Not so calm, not so assured, NOT SO CALM.
Lauren’s like: Proper. Obtained you coated. You need to discover a method that helps you shortly get calm and grounded within the second. She says being attentive to her respiratory is her go-to, however
Lauren Taylor: My approach of doing it could not be just right for you or her or anyone else. Individuals have to search out what works for them to remain calm and grounded. So just some concepts. It may be, um, respiratory. It may be feeling your ft on the ground. These are my prime two, however it additionally could be, you recognize, some individuals saying a fast prayer helps them.
Dan: She’s received extra:
Lauren Taylor: It may be, orienting your self to the room. Like, what are 5 issues I can see or can I discover three blue issues? After which what’s one factor I can hear. What’s the one factor I can really feel, these orienting issues that preserve you very a lot within the current second and likewise let you recognize, like, this can be extremely upsetting, however proper now I’m truly okay. Proper now on this second, I’m truly okay. You already know, I’m possibly scared about shedding my medical health insurance. I could also be scared about the place the cash’s going to come back from. However in case you can say to your self, like, Oh proper now, I’m sitting in a room in my residence and, um, you recognize, My family members are round me or my pets are round me, or I’ve a plan for dinner or I’m going to name a good friend proper now I’m okay. So there’s a lot of methods to get current. and I believe that getting current is what may also help this girl and all people else.
Dan: What I hear you speaking about … Like once you say: “get into the current,” it’s like, I’m shifting my consideration. I’m shifting my consideration from this sense that I’m having that desires to take up my total area of consideration. And I’m type of like reminding myself that there are different issues to provide my consideration to. And now that I do know that I can provide my consideration to my technique
I believe one factor that actually strikes me about what you’re saying is … it’s type of reframing the query. I begin to get indignant to a degree the place possibly it’s unproductive and I believe the best way that’s framed, is how do I not have the sensation? That’s how I’m studying the questions. The issue is I get indignant. And what I’m listening to you say is like, not an issue.
Lauren Taylor: Not an issue
Dan: You’re getting indignant.
Lauren Taylor: There are actually good causes to be indignant
Dan: YES! For positive. So what you need isn’t to keep away from getting indignant– it’s simply to keep away from getting uncontrolled. You most likely ARE going to get mad. So that you need to plan for it.
And to evaluate, Lauren’s prime two ideas are:
One: Have a plan for what you’re gonna do with that anger AFTER the decision. How are you going to cope with it?
And two: Have a few favourite hacks for shortly re-focusing your consideration. To your breath, another sensation, no matter clicks for you.
You’re most likely gonna need to WRITE down these tips, follow them, earlier than you get on the cellphone.
I actually love this. And speaking to Lauren, I spotted: Being on the cellphone with the insurance coverage firm– or the medical-billing workplace or whoever else within the medical-industrial advanced you’re speaking with– we’ve received benefits we don’t have in another self-defense conditions:
One: You’re not in the identical bodily house with that different particular person. They’ll’t see you scrunch up your face, or gently rub your coronary heart, or pet the cat, or silently depend to 10 whereas they’re speaking.
Which is totally different from being face-to-face with anyone who might harm you– bodily or emotionally.
And two: You don’t have an ongoing relationship with this specific particular person. It’s not like telling your mother that you just want her to ask your associate to household gatherings. Or telling your colleague to cease making racist jokes. These are relationships which are going to maintain affecting you. And doubtless preserve affecting different relationships.
Right here, you’re like, WHATEVER, nameless insurance-company particular person. Which doesn’t imply you may act like a jerk to them– that’s not going that can assist you. However you do have an escape hatch. If you happen to actually can’t take it any extra with out shedding your cool… you may grasp up and name again later, once you’re prepared, and inform the subsequent particular person, GEE, I received disconnected earlier than.
I inform Lauren this, and he or she’s like
Lauren Taylor: Yeah, I used to be positively considering, you recognize, you may, in case you have, in case you’re too crammed up with feeling to be doing one thing that feels helpful, you may completely say, you recognize, I can speak about this anymore. I’ll name, name again one other time.
Dan: Oh yeah. Proper. You don’t have to love faux, dropping the decision. You may simply say like, wow. I believe I have to, I would like a while to digest this. , I’d wish to name
Lauren Taylor: I’ll name again later.
Dan: YES. I’ll name again later. That’s the place we left issues with Lauren Taylor within the fall of 2020, and it’s all nonetheless super-relevant — as I can attest proper now, with my back-and-forth calls to the hospital and the insurance coverage firm.
One replace: Since we talked, Lauren Taylor has printed a e-book!
Get Empowered: A Sensible Information to Thrive, Heal, and Embrace Your Confidence in a Sexist World was printed in October 2023, and — though the title means that the e-book targets people with one X chromosome greater than I occur to have — I’m wanting ahead to studying it.
We condensed a few of Lauren’s recommendation right into a First Help Equipment e-newsletter final yr — together with associated ideas from different superstars. We’ll put a hyperlink within the present notes — it’s best to be capable to discover it wherever you’re listening, and you’ll join any of our newsletters at arm and a leg present dot com, slash, e-newsletter.
We will probably be again in three weeks.
Until then, deal with your self.
This episode of An Arm and a Leg was produced by me, Dan Weissmann, edited in 2020 by Marian Wang, and for this re-release by Ellen Weiss.
Emily Pisacreta is our senior producer. Adam Raymonda is our audio wizard.
Gabrielle Healy is our managing editor for viewers — she edits the First Help Equipment e-newsletter.
Sarah Ballema is our operations supervisor. Bea Bosco is our consulting director of operations.
An Arm and a Leg is produced in partnership with KFF Well being Information.
That’s a nationwide newsroom producing in-depth journalism about well being care in America, and a core program at KFF — an unbiased supply of well being coverage analysis, polling, and journalism.
You may study extra about KFF Well being Information at arm and a leg present dot com, slash KFF.
Zach Dyer is senior audio producer at KFF Well being Information. He’s editorial liaison to this present.
Because of the INSTITUTE FOR NONPROFIT NEWS for serving as our fiscal sponsor, permitting us to simply accept tax-exempt donations. You may study extra about INN at I-N-N dot org.
And due to all people who helps this present financially. I’m about to shout out FIFTY individuals who donated within the final dozen days of 2023. You prepared?
Thanks this time to… [names redacted].
Thanks a lot!
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